Live Coverage
CJF Forum: Freedom (Or Not) Of Information In Canada
Suzanne Legault, the Information Commissioner of Canada, gives a behind-the-scenes look at access to information and privacy in Canada. Panellists include: Jim Bronskill and Paul Schabas. Hugh Winsor moderates.
- Welcome to tonight's forum: Freedom (or not) of Information in Canada
Is government secrecy trumping transparency? Canada has a bad reputation when it comes to freedom of information. Our country fared poorly in a landmark 2008 study of 68 countries with FOI laws, and it was also ranked last in a 2011 University College of London study of five modern democracies. Even Canada's Information Commissioner admits the system is on life support. What’s behind the decline in compliance and the long delays?
Suzanne Legault, the Information Commissioner of Canada, gives us a behind-the-scenes look at access to information and privacy in Canada, the issues she faces and potential solutions to the problems. After her presentation, she will join a panel discussion with Jim Bronskill, an investigative journalist with The Canadian Press and Paul Schabas, a media lawyer with Blake, Cassels & Graydon LLP in Toronto. The discussion will be moderated by veteran parliamentary reporter and columnist Hugh Winsor. - #cjfforum Poll: 6 in 10 canadians say too diff to access infoby cswa_news via twitter 11/23/2011 12:08:14 AM
- Winsor: journalists consider current government one of the most secret they have ever witnessed
- As Hugh Winsor says, Harper's first piece of legislation was supposed to, in Harper's words, "change the way business is done in Ottawa forever." Winsor adds if he had to sum up the weakness of the Accountability Act in two words, they would be "Tony Clement"
- Suzanne Legault is now up
- Legault says it's not unusual for politicians for change their minds about gov't transparency depending on whether they are forming a gov't or whether they are in opposition
- Legault has put up some statistics showing the government is taking longer to complete access to information requests. Since the first year the government began collecting such stats, 2003, the wait times have only increased -- every year
- In 2009/10, information was completely disclosed in only 16 per cent of all requests requests filed. In most cases, information was only partially disclosed. When journalists say it's taking longer to release less information, says Legault, they're right.
- There is no clear legislation that deals with deadlines and extensions, she adds
- More requests are being exempted under section 15 of the legislation, which deals with national security, says Legault. In 1996/7, only 5 per cent of applications were turned down under this section. Now: more than 20 per cent
- Legault:
Our legislative framework really is, in my view, antiquated - Legault: We need to have a principled approach to our legislation
- Legault says this means we also need an appropriate public interest test, which allows us to weigh the benefits of disclosure against the harm
It's true, she adds, Canadians are not really aware of the access to information rights - #cjfforum SL: modernize law but w/benchmark of international acceptance. Take principled approach.by cswa_news via twitter 11/23/2011 12:29:03 AM
- Legault say we should also ensure the swift implementation of new records keeping policies
- There has to be a vigorous enforcement of the act by the information commissioner, she adds. There are, says Legault, some complaint cases that are years old. She recently closed a 2004 case -- but she is closing more and more cases and the backlog is shrinking. "We're making strides," she says, "but boy there's a lot of work to do."
- Legault: people don't know access to information rights, yet there is no education mandate in the legislation #cjfforumby belindaalzner via twitter 11/23/2011 12:31:32 AM
- #cjfforum SL: now look at all extensions, never used to do that before. One of main causes of delay is that consulting agency never respondsby cswa_news via twitter 11/23/2011 12:35:36 AM
- What role can journalists play, asks Legault. "I'd like journalists to go further ... I think journalists must be activists" We must, she says, be activists in the defence and promotion of a sound and healthy access to information regime in Canada.
- It's no secret, says Legault, that fulfilled access to information requests often lead to the disclosure of mistakes and scandals. Governments, naturally, are reluctant to disclose this information, she adds. Legault says government leaders need courage of long term vision: when disclosure is made about mistakes, or wrongdoing, it creates long term trust in leadership. Why? Because mistakes are corrected, she says. There are mistakes and there will always be mistakes. What we want as citizens, she says, is for them to be disclosed, addressed and corrected.
- Govts have to be courageous in the long term vision of access to info because in the short term, it exposes mistakes/scandals. #cjfforumby belindaalzner via twitter 11/23/2011 12:41:10 AM
- Legault: Journalists need to be activists for a sound and healthy access to information in their fundamental search for truth #cjfforumby belindaalzner via twitter 11/23/2011 12:41:15 AM
- We'll now hear from CP journalist Jim Bronskill
- Bronskill: The federal access law is very useful, but it doesn't work as well as it should
- The law itself is rather antiquated, Bronskill echoes. "It's 28 years old"
- Bronskill:
I'm not here to pick on [Suzanne's] office or the system in general - "I have about 40 complaints", Bronskill says.
- Part of the problem with being refused information and filing a complaint about the refusal, he says, is that after the complaints are investigated -- and information potentially released -- the information released is too old to be used.
- For example, Bronskill is still fighting for the Tommy Douglas records six years after making the request. He has recently received some records: 1,100 pages. One-fifth of the file is still denied, he adds, even after going to court over the issue.
- Bronskill: I'm not only fighting to get records about what the Harper government is doing, I'm still trying to figure out what the MacKenzie King government was doing
- Paul Schabas is now up
- If info was more freely available, there wouldn't be so many requests. "it's a systemic thing," says Jim Bronskill, CP journo #cjfforumby belindaalzner via twitter 11/23/2011 12:49:48 AM
- Schabas: The problem is the Access to Information act is merely a statute
- Schabas says one of the most disappointing charter decisions the Supreme Court has ever made was to say there was no charter right to information. The Criminal Lawyers Association had argued that the right to information should be covered under right to freedom of expression. Only with full information, the argument went, could a full discussion happen -- so much for public scrutiny, quips Schabas
- The media for far too long has been very reluctant to write about this, he says. the media has for too long, Schabas adds, felt like they were playing inside baseball. "I think it's time to advocate for change"
- #Cjfforum PS: decapitated the act: can get all the info from lower officials, but not the heads.by cswa_news via twitter 11/23/2011 12:55:39 AM
- #Cjfforum there has to be an independent review where exemptions are claimed - Legaultby cswa_news via twitter 11/23/2011 12:58:56 AM
- We are now talking about order-making power, and whether the commissioner should have it.
Bronskill: We have to remember these are laws. And there's really no penalty when governments break them, and they break them all the time. - Very few people are able to go to court, Bronskill adds. CP has only been able to do so with the Tommy Douglas case because the lawyers are doing it pro bono. I don't think even a lot of media can afford to go to court to fight [exemptions], he adds. "It's an uphill battle"
- Schabas says yes to order-making power: "I think commissioners can act more nimbly" than judges can, or will ever do.
- Bronskill: need to build incentives into the system to make it work better. Ex. Waiving fees, less exemptions if deadline not met #cjfforumby belindaalzner via twitter 11/23/2011 1:05:08 AM
- #Cjfforum Bronskill: exemptions have been overused esp for nationally security. There are no penalties for not disclosing info in timely wayby cswa_news via twitter 11/23/2011 1:05:12 AM
- Schabas: I think the Commissioner can, and I hope will, have more of an impact on changing the culture ... I see it all the time that our officials presumptively approach it the other way around: they feel threatened by requests. We have to do something to change that culture.
- Winsor asks: How do we limit the national security exemption?
- Bronskill: It's an uphill battle ... we see it [being used] all the time
- Legault: On the national security front, I think we have seen in the past 2-3 years [requests] are changing the landscape on section 15 and how it's going to be applied. There has been a willingness, she says, from what she has seen, to change the ways section 15 is applied.
- We're on to questions from the audience
- Q1: why so many [complaint] cases re: the CRA?
- Legault: there are very complex investigations by the CRA, so very complex investigations will take place "that's going to be a huge challenge for my office"
- Legault: The rule is that government legislation should be disclosed to the public
- Another Q: You must be the most frustrated person in Ottawa
- Legault: do I get frustrated? Sure. But as I said, she adds, it's time for great expectations. "I think we should hold the Canadian government to its bold commitment"
- Legault:
"We've done all the work. Now it's time to act on it." - Question time! A more light-hearted second part of a q: "What does Peter Mansbridge earn? You know this stuff!" hah, no dice. #cjfforumby belindaalzner via twitter 11/23/2011 1:20:53 AM
- #cjfforum Canadian government's commitment to open government--we should be enthused & hold it to its word. I'm convinced we can make diffby cswa_news via twitter 11/23/2011 1:21:02 AM
- And that's it. Thanks for coming out tonight!
J-Source and ProjetJ are projects of The Canadian Journalism Foundation in collaboration with leading schools and organizations across Canada. Editor-in-chief, J-Source: | |||
Recent Posts
2012-05-16 12:30
2012-05-16 10:53
On Rob Ford, Daniel Dale and Fencegate: Journalists, stand together for access to information
Deux nouveaux médias québécois: Les News et Le République
Call for submissions for the 2012 Dave Greber Freelance Writers Awards